"We should have Israel, they can have Texas or Uganda or Sinai"

Interview With A Tel Rumeida Settler
"We should have Israel, they can have Texas or Uganda or Sinai"
Palestine Monitor

September 25, 2009

Hebron remains the hub of tension and violence in the West Bank. Much of this comes from the settlers of Tel Rumeida, a community of 800 international Zionists living in the heart of the city, notorious for frequent, unprovoked attacks on their Muslim neighbors. We spoke with New Jersey-born David Wilder, a community leader, to explain their continued presence in Hebron and his hopes for a solution.

What are the hopes and aims of the Tel Rumeida settlers?

We aim to live normally in Hebron, not to worry about threats to kill or wound you, or expel you from your home. We want to live normally as individuals and as a community, to be able to buy new property and to build.

How difficult is for settlers to live with the threats you’re talking about?

There are daily threats and it’s not just Hebron, everyone, anywhere in Israeli is marked. In Hebron, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, anywhere In Israel you’re marked by the people that don’t want us here. To them the ends justify the means. In Hebron there’s good security and a lot of help from above, which prevents most of the attacks. There are strong measures which make sure people are safe, the military in Hebron has many purposes; to make sure inhabitants and visitors are safe, to make sure terrorists can’t get out of the other parts of Hebron, plan attacks or perpetrate them.

When Israel left Hebron in 1997, there became a vacuum in that part of the city, the PA did nothing about and often supported the terrorist attacks which came from there. A large part of Hebron turned into a terrorists nest. The army now try to get the terrorists before these attacks and arrest them; They do a lot of good work on that side of the city. It happened in Jenin too, terrorist nests spring up anywhere we turn over to the PA.

Do you trust the Israeli government?

In January 1997, Netanyahu was elected without much support; he got in by half a percentage point. He came into power on the platform of the Israeli right. We then had a war with the Arabs and as a result of that he signed and implemented the Hebron accords which gave them 80% of Hebron. This was after he had come out against it. If that’s not betrayal I don’t know what is. This gave the Arabs the ability to attack us. When the 2nd intifada started exactly nine years ago, the night before Rosh Hashanah, the Arabs had control of the hills we gave them to shoot us. There’s no betrayal higher than that.

Might they give up the Tel Rumeida settlement?

We thought Gush Kativ would never happen, so never say never. It’s difficult to envision an Israeli government throwing Jews out of their homes again but they could do it. The trauma of destroying Hebron is unthinkable and would stay in people’s memories.

What do you think of Fayyad’s offer of citizenship?

Brief studies of Islam show that the ends always justify the means. it’s permissible to lie, you can say whatever you want as long you don’t believe it in your heart so you can say whatever. If using that deception will bring you victory in the name of Allah then you can do it. In 1993, when Rabin signed Oslo, giving all Arab cities to Arafat, if since then there had been no more terror, they had built up factories and education instead I might have believed it. But they did not stick to their obligations. Since Oslo, almost 2,000 Jews have been killed in terror attacks in cold blood. So when they say something, how can we believe it? Suppose Fayyad means what he says and is a good guy, how long would he last? They slap our hands the first time and the second, we just keep putting out our hands and they kill us. We gave them Gush Kativ, destroyed 10,000 lives and they used that land to shoot 5000 missiles at us. Fayyad is talking about citizenship so that the army leaves and they can massacre us again.

Do you believe Muslims have a disposition towards aggression and violence?

You have to understand what’s permissible in Islam. The problem is the situation here is not a political conflict, it’s a religious conflict and the Arabs say that. You’ve seen what they did in London, in America, they had a plan to blow up the largest building in the world in Dubai too. They have a goal, which is to take over the world and they say it themselves. Hebron is not their goal, Jerusalem isn’t their goal, (neither of these are mentioned in the Quran) and even Israel isn’t their goal. Even moderates in the PA believe the whole of Israel belongs to them. Tel Aviv is Tel Araba, its Palestine. Israel is a stepping stone, the mayor of London made a statement that London should fast for Ramadan, there are swimming pools in London that demand Islamic dress code. Sharia is starting to overtake civil law all over the world. They come out and say it, this is our goal; we want the white house to have an Islamic flag.

Is there too much tolerance of this threat from politicians? Do you welcome international involvement?

King Hussein is pulling the strings in Washington. Obama’s father is Muslim, which by their laws makes him Islamic. What he said in Cairo was preposterous; anyone with any knowledge of the situation knows you cannot kowtow to Arabs. I don’t know why he did it and I don’t welcome his involvement at all. Were still dealing with existential threats to Israel and we’re the ones who have to deal with that threat. 60 years ago (the holocaust) nobody gave a damn, the Americans and French knew what was happening and they did nothing about it. In Obama’s eyes maybe the only threat is to Israel and they don’t care whether we exist or not, so they can play games and say first we’re going to negotiate, then have sanctions and more sanctions. But he’s wrong because the threat is against everyone, the Iranians are finalizing nuclear weapons and while we’re negotiating they will finish their nuclear bomb and it will be too late. The nuclear threat is against the western world, he could hit Paris or London or Stockholm, the same as he’d hit Tel Aviv.

How do you feel about a two state solution?

I’m all for it; We should have Israel, they can have Texas or Uganda or Sinai. People refuse to comprehend what threats our state is facing. From the north you have Hezbollah, with thousands of missiles that could hit Tel Aviv. Down south you have Hamas, which can also hit Tel Aviv. Syria, Jordan, Iran and Saudi Arabia would all love to feed on the carcass of Israel. So that’s the neighborhood we’re living in. Now you want to take a big chunk of the little bit we have and turn it into an enemy state of people who want to destroy us and say that all the time. They don’t acknowledge a Jewish state, the PLO charter still says they need to destroy us, they keep saying they’ll revert back to violence and have another intifada and we’re giving them a state? Then we say they have moderates and extremists, so they need two states; Gaza and the West Bank. Fatah are the 'good guys’, but they only exist because Israel is propping them up otherwise Hamas would have taken over.

In Gaza they took all the Fatah people and threw them off the roof. A Palestinian state is just another entity that wants to destroy the state of Israel. Netanyahu says were going to give them a state but make sure they’re not a threat to us. It’s a contradiction in terms. What about when they start to feed missiles in from Jordan, the same way Hamas does. They already have more than they had during the last war. Once you have a PA state, its 10km from Jewish cities. From those hills you can see the whole Israeli coast, you have a clear view of Ben Gurion airport. Today they have these stingray missiles that they put on their shoulders, they will shoot down a commercial plane and then who in their right mind will ever come to Israel? You know what they’ll say? 'Those were extremists, we don’t agree with that’. You have to be blind not to understand. The world says there has to be a Palestinian state, they’re saying we have to commit suicide.

Can the two societies coexist? Are you calling for expulsion of Muslims?

They certainly have places to go. If anyone wants to leave that’s fine but we don’t insist. Israel can live with anyone as long as they accept the sovereignty and rule of Israel. They have to know if they’re going to fight with us we’ll fight back. I have never called for expulsion but if its racist to talk about moving Jews for the sake of peace then it’s a two way street. 95% the ball is in their court because they refuse to accept our presence. Is it possible to coexist? Is it possible for Christians to lose England or America to Muslims? I believe the way to stop this cancer is stop it here; it’s in the interests of international community to say it’s forbidden for Israel to acquiesce to this terror because otherwise it’s going to hit us too.

When the Arabs see they can use terror to achieve their goals here and receive the backing of the western world then they’re going to say they can do it everywhere. They will use the same tactics in the USA and Europe, they will turn 9/11 into a kindergarten game, they have the ability to do that today, chemical weapons, nuclear bombs and when the time comes they will use they’ll be able to wipe out millions in hours, the world hasn’t picked that up yet and if they want to stop it then they can’t support that terror against us here. It’s dangerous for the entire western world. They still haven’t worked out the Muslim psyche, where they’re coming from and where they’re going to, it’s very scary.

What steps can be taken towards a solution?

We’ve already lost Europe, it’s already gone and the US has almost gone too. The Arabs have to accept our right to be here, the Israeli people have to accept it too because many are not sure we should be here, Arab propaganda is so good that they think we stole Palestine and we don’t have a right to be here. So they have to learn a little history. There is no such thing as Palestine, Palestine was a name invented by the Romans for Israel after destroying the Jews here 2000 years ago, calling it 'Palestina’ meaning philistines.

Mass immigration to Israel is needed, the Jews are finally going to come over here from USA, South Africa, Australia and Britain and instead of 5.5 million Jews were going to have 10 million Jews in Israel. They’re going to spread everywhere and that’s going to change things. It’s going to happen, just a matter of time.

Do you endorse the actions of violent groups like the Kach party?

Kach has never used violent methods, no Jewish group ever has. Kach was outlawed because of international outcry about Baruch Goldstein, who was one person acting by himself. Less than five Jews have ever used means like that, how many Arabs have been killed and how many Jews? How many acts of terror from each side? Terror doesn’t exist from our side.

Are there two Israels? How do you feel about internal opposition to settlers?

No secret that Israel is politically divided; the last elections over 10-20 years have been almost 50/50. I think that amongst Jews there’s a much stronger leaning toward the centre right but a lot of people are very confused.

International groups like Breaking the Silence have been inciting against us for years, using Israeli soldiers who flipped out and started attacking their own army. In any other country they would have been tried for treason, but instead it set off a trend of Israelis criticising the Jews in Hebron. The campaign against us, supported by the British embassy, the EU and left wing Jews caused tremendous damage but no one cared. To have immoral people like that, treasonous acts, people with any sense of psychology understand it will grow and spread, all of a sudden these same people say the Israeli army acted unethically in Gaza, using human shields. You’re dealing with anti Semitism, most from outside Israel, turning our own people against us.

What does the future hold for Tel Rumeida?

God didn’t bring us back to throw us out. We live here and will continue to live here. There are difficulties, but they will be overcome. Hebron is a living miracle, when they shot us from the hills for two and a half years we should all have been wiped out, I saw people bend over and have bullets go over their heads, I’ve seen bullets skim people and bounce off. When they shot into my apartment twice, the bullets missed my kids by a couple of inches, literally a couple of inches. I don’t know if God moved the bullets but it happened and I’ve watched it day by day. If you live that you have to prove your dedication, so that’s what we’re doing. In the end we will be victorious, of that I have no doubt.